Comments on: Proof of Concept : Learning Groovy, Grails, JRuby, and Rails http://www.brianlegros.com/blog/2008/01/20/proof-of-concept-learning-groovy-grails-jruby-and-rails/ eat, program, and be merry Fri, 28 Oct 2011 00:48:25 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Frontend with GWT. What about the server side? http://www.brianlegros.com/blog/2008/01/20/proof-of-concept-learning-groovy-grails-jruby-and-rails/comment-page-1/#comment-15165 Frontend with GWT. What about the server side? Sun, 06 Sep 2009 15:36:53 +0000 http://www.brianlegros.com/blog/2008/01/20/proof-of-concept-learning-groovy-grails-jruby-and-rails/#comment-15165 [...] [...] [...] [...]

]]> By: Brian LeGros http://www.brianlegros.com/blog/2008/01/20/proof-of-concept-learning-groovy-grails-jruby-and-rails/comment-page-1/#comment-7449 Brian LeGros Fri, 13 Feb 2009 00:08:40 +0000 http://www.brianlegros.com/blog/2008/01/20/proof-of-concept-learning-groovy-grails-jruby-and-rails/#comment-7449 @Peter - Thanks for stopping by. I've played with Grails 1.1 a bit and still really like it. GSP still isn't living up to what I had hoped, but at the office we've been considering it more for easily creating service endpoints to be consumed by Flex, for which it does a great job. Hope this helps. @Peter – Thanks for stopping by. I’ve played with Grails 1.1 a bit and still really like it. GSP still isn’t living up to what I had hoped, but at the office we’ve been considering it more for easily creating service endpoints to be consumed by Flex, for which it does a great job. Hope this helps.

]]> By: Peter Bell http://www.brianlegros.com/blog/2008/01/20/proof-of-concept-learning-groovy-grails-jruby-and-rails/comment-page-1/#comment-7361 Peter Bell Mon, 09 Feb 2009 16:15:26 +0000 http://www.brianlegros.com/blog/2008/01/20/proof-of-concept-learning-groovy-grails-jruby-and-rails/#comment-7361 Hi Brian, I know this posting was a while ago. Just wondering if you've had a chance to play with Grails any more recently? Hi Brian,

I know this posting was a while ago. Just wondering if you’ve had a chance to play with Grails any more recently?

]]> By: Brian LeGros http://www.brianlegros.com/blog/2008/01/20/proof-of-concept-learning-groovy-grails-jruby-and-rails/comment-page-1/#comment-527 Brian LeGros Wed, 23 Jan 2008 16:19:12 +0000 http://www.brianlegros.com/blog/2008/01/20/proof-of-concept-learning-groovy-grails-jruby-and-rails/#comment-527 @Michael - Too long? Ok, that's fair. In the post I'm talking more about shops that have vested interests in enterprise resources that aren't trying to just manage a database, but SOAs, ESBs, BPM, distributed components, etc. and work on the web. IMO, this is probably why they've chosen to work with Java to start. The level of abstraction for most of these architectures is at the object, service, or component level. If a database is required for an application, having to interact with that resource on a finer level of abstraction can be somewhat cumbersome especially when you're used to a different one. I think this is why Hibernate is being hailed as the defacto standard over libraries like iBatis in the Java ORM world; a majority Java developers see even SQL (unless they need it :)), as operating at too fine a granularity. I'm not saying I agree with this, it's just an assumption I'm making based on what I see in the industry. I do wonder about building applications from a design perspective as well. The way we design applications, the focus is on modeling at the object level. Utilizing Rails means we may want to also consider using ERDs for the modeling process since we'll be writing migrations. I don't know if its possible to escape the use of ERDs by utilizing something like GORM (Hibernate), but it seems like different levels of detail would be required for each approach. That being said, my argument is pretty weak here, so I am probably wrong. @Michael – Too long? Ok, that’s fair. In the post I’m talking more about shops that have vested interests in enterprise resources that aren’t trying to just manage a database, but SOAs, ESBs, BPM, distributed components, etc. and work on the web. IMO, this is probably why they’ve chosen to work with Java to start. The level of abstraction for most of these architectures is at the object, service, or component level.

If a database is required for an application, having to interact with that resource on a finer level of abstraction can be somewhat cumbersome especially when you’re used to a different one. I think this is why Hibernate is being hailed as the defacto standard over libraries like iBatis in the Java ORM world; a majority Java developers see even SQL (unless they need it :) ), as operating at too fine a granularity. I’m not saying I agree with this, it’s just an assumption I’m making based on what I see in the industry.

I do wonder about building applications from a design perspective as well. The way we design applications, the focus is on modeling at the object level. Utilizing Rails means we may want to also consider using ERDs for the modeling process since we’ll be writing migrations. I don’t know if its possible to escape the use of ERDs by utilizing something like GORM (Hibernate), but it seems like different levels of detail would be required for each approach. That being said, my argument is pretty weak here, so I am probably wrong.

]]> By: Michael Sica http://www.brianlegros.com/blog/2008/01/20/proof-of-concept-learning-groovy-grails-jruby-and-rails/comment-page-1/#comment-525 Michael Sica Wed, 23 Jan 2008 06:53:43 +0000 http://www.brianlegros.com/blog/2008/01/20/proof-of-concept-learning-groovy-grails-jruby-and-rails/#comment-525 I couldn't read this whole post, it's just too long. But I want to comment on one sentence. About Rails... "I felt like my focus was on the database for the most part and that seemed contrary to the goal of the framework." It's not the goal of the framework to get you away from the DB. In fact, they're taking the stance that web developers can stop pretending like there is no relational database when 99% of the apps web developers build are just a UI on top of a DB. Not all, but the bulk of the Rails peeps... Especially the stuff the creators of the framework work with. If it makes you feel any better, a lot of people get those relationship methods confused. I constantly refer back to their API docs to keep everything straight. I couldn’t read this whole post, it’s just too long. But I want to comment on one sentence.

About Rails…
“I felt like my focus was on the database for the most part and that seemed contrary to the goal of the framework.”

It’s not the goal of the framework to get you away from the DB. In fact, they’re taking the stance that web developers can stop pretending like there is no relational database when 99% of the apps web developers build are just a UI on top of a DB. Not all, but the bulk of the Rails peeps… Especially the stuff the creators of the framework work with.

If it makes you feel any better, a lot of people get those relationship methods confused. I constantly refer back to their API docs to keep everything straight.

]]> By: Brian LeGros http://www.brianlegros.com/blog/2008/01/20/proof-of-concept-learning-groovy-grails-jruby-and-rails/comment-page-1/#comment-521 Brian LeGros Mon, 21 Jan 2008 05:07:04 +0000 http://www.brianlegros.com/blog/2008/01/20/proof-of-concept-learning-groovy-grails-jruby-and-rails/#comment-521 @Max - Haha, oh man, does this mean my level of responsibility can go down if I'm wrong? In fact, you guys should demote me if I'm wrong, just so I can keep my options open in the ultimate pursuit of less to do with anything. :*( Maybe that could be my reward if I'm right ... @Max – Haha, oh man, does this mean my level of responsibility can go down if I’m wrong? In fact, you guys should demote me if I’m wrong, just so I can keep my options open in the ultimate pursuit of less to do with anything. :*( Maybe that could be my reward if I’m right …

]]> By: Maxim Porges http://www.brianlegros.com/blog/2008/01/20/proof-of-concept-learning-groovy-grails-jruby-and-rails/comment-page-1/#comment-518 Maxim Porges Mon, 21 Jan 2008 05:00:51 +0000 http://www.brianlegros.com/blog/2008/01/20/proof-of-concept-learning-groovy-grails-jruby-and-rails/#comment-518 You have now officially given yourself the right to say "told you so" in a year or two when we decide to use Groovy on Grails for everything. And I mean EVERYTHING - all the way down to writing test automation scripts, sending mass emails company-wide, and developing the holy lunch-destination-decider application. :) - max You have now officially given yourself the right to say “told you so” in a year or two when we decide to use Groovy on Grails for everything.

And I mean EVERYTHING – all the way down to writing test automation scripts, sending mass emails company-wide, and developing the holy lunch-destination-decider application. :)

- max

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